Real Estate Online Communities and Networks: Novelty or Necessity?
Posted in Alternative Business Models By Stefan Swanepoel, Monday, July 7, 2008.Congratulations to both ActiveRain and RealTown that have reached that magical six figure membership number of 100,000 people.
Add to these two frontrunners the re-engineered Inman News that now includes an online real estate community (where we are having this discussion right now) and the rapid expansion of the real estate side of LinkedIn and the evidence supports that social networking and community has officially taken hold of real estate. It is here to stay and is on the short list of major contributors to shape the residential real estate industry.
Granted that some of the one hundred thousand participants are vendors, technology nerds, people with duplicate accounts and even others that may visit their online accounts infrequently, but the critical mass is there and they are generating sufficient buzz. Topics are being posted as frequently as on any online news service and the responses are frequent and increasing in number.
Stories or posts as they are usually referred to sometimes break on a news service only to find a part of the whole story analyzed and dissected on a blog where RSS subscribers receive immediate notification. And very quickly within the 7 degrees of separation comments bounce from yonder to form a thread of discussion.
This is truly a new marvel for real estate – open discussion between many agents. Agents now have an outlet to immediately express their opinion (pro or con) concerning a wide range of topics and products as well as their broker or Realtor® Association.
Now it’s true that some of the comments are not always polite, politically correct and can even still be a little too sleazy. But more often than not they are well thought through and overall real estate is doing well at this early developmental stage of “almost anonymous” debate.
This online conversation is slowly but surely creating an influence – an influence that needs to be heard, managed and respected. The question is how much of it is “pointless chatter” and how much is “quality commentary” and how do we distinguish between the two.
In the end it’s the substance (quality commentary), the diamonds in the rough, that will become the foundation for the continued re-engineering of the real estate business process. To those who are already participating – and joined one or more of the online communities, good for you. To those who are not yet, grab a keyboard and join in – whether you know and can share, or need to learn and grow – there is much to say and so much more to still do.
What are you thoughts about the future of online real estate communities?
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Submitted by Allen Wright on July 7, 2008 - 2:46pm.
Communities serve another purpose that is not always appreciated, it allows the agent to discuss something difficult about their business "vent" for lack of a better term and hear from others that have experienced the same. I would submit that writing the post in the first place is therapy in-and-of-itself.
on a bigger picture view, communities allow professionals to have discussions with other professionals outside of their immediate area. These discussions ultimately lead to a better understanding of the industry, if you real want to know what is on agents minds, read a blog like ActiveRain.
Submitted by Becky Boomsma on July 7, 2008 - 9:43pm.
I agree with Allen, and this is why ActiveRain and Realtown (RealTalk and eProTalk ListServs) have been so successful for years and growing with participants each day. Online real estate communities will not fade and will continue to emerge, grow, and thrive because it is filling a huge void, providing a professional exchange or outlet for credible resources and information where the industry had little access to prior to the last few years. Social networking and professional communities provide an instant forum for issues, information, education, sharing, and interaction, while building relationships and credibility, providing clarity for those participating and even for those who choose to lurk. What emerges from this exciting and dynamic process, is a rebounding energy and transcendental experience through contribution, validation, pride, and professionalism to those in the industry who value change, vision, and critical thinking to optimize creative solutions, our best ideas, and direction...and that experience will evolve and keep them coming back for more, exponentially. Want to learn more about professional communities and social networking and what it can do for your business? If you've never been to Inman Connect, you are missing out on cutting edge content and networking. Sign up for the Blogger's Bootcamp today. Also, don't miss RISMedia's Leadership Conference - another great event of hot topics, top speakers, and terrific networking.
Becky Boomsma
Marketing Specialist, CRS, ePro, SRES
Franklin Lakes, NJ
www.BeckyBoomsma.com
Submitted by Ralph M on July 8, 2008 - 8:19am.
90% of Blogs are worthless and full of whineing. You really have to dig through the remaining 10% ofthe blogs to find something valueable that will move your self forward and assist you in real estate.
Blogs exist because the 90% that are blogging are followers and will not change regardless of what you present them. The 90% are just looking to hear from others that "You are okay...." , "It will be all right" and "You are right"..
The 10% remaining, are the ones that are combing through the rants and complaints to find just the tiny little edge to move them that much ahaed of the rest...
www.aarsteam.com
Submitted by Ralph M on July 8, 2008 - 8:19am.
90% of Blogs are worthless and full of whineing. You really have to dig through the remaining 10% ofthe blogs to find something valueable that will move your self forward and assist you in real estate.
Blogs exist because the 90% that are blogging are followers and will not change regardless of what you present them. The 90% are just looking to hear from others that "You are okay...." , "It will be all right" and "You are right"..
The 10% remaining, are the ones that are combing through the rants and complaints to find just the tiny little edge to move them that much ahead of the rest...
www.aarsteam.com
Submitted by Justin Britt on July 8, 2008 - 10:58am.
Communities are great, but what the real estate industry fails to realize is that the communities we are currently targeting are not helping home buyers and sellers. Nor are they directly assisting agents and brokers to sell property.
My vision of a community is a place where buyers and sellers gather to discuss properties and agents. Where a client who has seen a property or worked with an agent could comment on that property or agent. This would be helpful for other clients when searching for homes or deciding which agent they will work with through the real estate transaction.
Unfortunately, the current MLS rules and regulations here in Hawaii do not allow for this type of community. However, this type of short sightedness is something that will surely be overcome.
Justin Britt
Head-Web-Head
Hawaii Life Real Estate Services, LLC
Hawaii real estate search engine
Submitted by Brian LoPresto on July 8, 2008 - 11:10am.
I like the direction that Justin is going, but I will say that this audience will come and go as their status of "active" buyer/seller changes.
Whereas a community like facebook is relevent to most who have an account, on a daily or at least weekly basis. While Realtors spend time and money on e-mail marketing, communities like Facebook offer a much more "sticky" place for them to communicate with their network.
It's also a better place to grow a network. This "pull into" community seems more effective than a "push to group" in an over-used and over-abused e-mail medium.
I wouldn't be surprised if development of Facebook listing applications have been launched. Anyone??
Brian
www.onjax.com
Submitted by Jason Anderson on July 8, 2008 - 11:15am.
Justin,
You should check out realseekr.com. They're building a site that will have much of what you're describing and a lot more.
No, I don't work for them. Yes, they will work for you.
Lucky Rock Consulting
Real Estate Bluetooth Advertising
Skype ID: luckyrockconsulting
Yahoo ID: luckyrockconsulting
Submitted by Justin Britt on July 8, 2008 - 12:28pm.
@Brian - Great point. You are right, the community I described would be made up of users who are there during the home buying or selling process, then they would be inactive once they've completed the process. However, the information that they leave behind will still be useful. Plus you will have the constant community of real estate industry professionals. And if your real estate market is anything like our market here in Hawaii, you also have a ton of agents that are here today and gone tomorrow ;-)
@Jason - This website has an interesting concept. The problem we currently face here in Hawaii (as well as many other markets I'm sure) is that MLS rules and regulations do not allow us to add additional info to MLS data for properties and agents. But this is the exact info that users will want to discuss and talk about.
Justin Britt
Head-Web-Head
Hawaii Life Real Estate Services, LLC
Hawaii real estate search engine
Submitted by Victor Lund on July 8, 2008 - 12:33pm.
With the new settlement btw the DOJ and NAR, MLSs will be forced to allow Brokers to enhance listings with this type of information (in my humble opinion).
Victor Lund
Partner
WAV Group
http://waves.wavgroup.com
http://www.wavgroup.com
Submitted by Justin Britt on July 8, 2008 - 1:26pm.
@Victor - What settlement is this? Will they be forced or is it your opinion that they should be forced? You got me all wet and juicy over here!!!
Justin Britt
Head-Web-Head
Hawaii Life Real Estate Services, LLC
Hawaii real estate search engine
Submitted by Becky Boomsma on July 8, 2008 - 1:51pm.
Justin,
The community that you describe, or a form of it, already exists on Trulia Voices. It serves buyers, sellers, consumers at large, and agents. With local, regional, and national agent participation it keeps everyone on their toes, offering interesting opinions and advice, strategies, factual information, and can often be listing specific. Check it out, join in, and define your edge as the local expert.
Becky Boomsma
Marketing Specialist, CRS, ePro, SRES
Franklin Lakes, NJ
www.BeckyBoomsma.com
Submitted by Ralph M on July 9, 2008 - 8:00am.
Becky,
As a realtor, why would you promote a FREE site that dilutes the "Coldwell Banker" brand and dilutes the importance of your association of Realtor.com?
"Check it out, join in, and define your edge as the local expert"
What makes and/or qualifies a person as a local expert on any website?
Submitted by Damien Hall on July 9, 2008 - 10:02am.
Ralph,
INFORMATION should be free. Providing a SERVICE, on the other hand, is not free. These community websites do just that. They provide a place where people can access info they need to make the best decisions. I don't think people giving their opinions and experiences is something that hurts the industry. These sites don't compete against realtor associations. They are there to enhance and evolve the industry. I view them as another source consumers can access.
Besides the industry has to keep pace with consumer's needs not the other way around. And now, people do a lot of research on the web before they decide to spend money.
www.TheDCInvestor.blogspot.com
Submitted by Roe Pressley on July 9, 2008 - 10:14am.
Legitimate, regulated discussion communities for Realtors definitely serve a purpose. Not only do they potentially provide a host of valuable information, but they can be a lot more effective for bringing traffic to your site than having an individual blog.
The popularity of blogs and their potential contribution to search engine optimization has spurred a sort of fervor among agents recently, and it seems many got the idea that simply having a company blog is going to drive traffic. This is obviously not true; many if not most Realtors are too busy with work to contribute fresh and USEFUL blog entries multiple times a week. Even if they did have the time and writing skills to do it, there's no guarantee anyone is going to find their blog.
But with discussion groups (especially ones that prompt you to enter your website's URL and links your display name to that site), your contribution to an existing topic can be a lot more useful. There are already people reading the comments, so you've got readership. And if you make a valid contribution and qualify yourself as a good source of information on a relevant topic, people will click over to your site for more information or services.
Of course this opens the door to spam and validates the usefulness of having "nofollow" tags in discussion group posts. The "nofollow" tag stops Google spiders from assigning page rank to sites based on links in a given text area (often blog comments). But it doesn't stop the spiders from indexing those pages, and it doesn't stop anyone from clicking over directly.
Roe Pressley
Public Relations and Marketing
http://www.RealEstateHomepages.com
Submitted by David Allen on July 9, 2008 - 10:24am.
I have been reading all of everyone's comments since I joined this group, probably 3 or 4 months ago. As my firm is in Toronto, Canada, most of what is discussed is not relevant here, so I have not replied. The Toronto Real Estate Board is the largest in the world, yet our MLS rules are so stringent and confining that it makes it very difficult for our agents to bring in many new technologies to their mix.
I personally agree with many of all of your thoughts and personally would like to see a lot of the technology down there, up here.
If any of you are interested in the Canadian market or more specifically, the Toronto market, which by the way is doing very well, or just trading thoughts with a Canadian, I will be at Inman in San Fransisco, and it would be interesting to discuss the different markets.
David
David Allen
Broker of Record/President
Graydon Hill Realty Ltd.
B 416-922-1142
dallen@graydonhill.com
www.graydonhill.com
Submitted by Ralph M on July 9, 2008 - 1:12pm.
"These sites don't compete against realtor associations"
So wrong! When you bring attention (good or bad) to another competing company and/or association, it is bad!
When you are a member as a realtor, you agree to a "Code Of ethics" in your real estate transactions. But what do the members of zillow or trulia go by?????
and when........ a property sells on zillow or trulia, why would anyone want to list with a realtor never the less, have their home listed with realtor.com?
Forsalebyowner is rated #1 because there are no "Realtors" for the service part (just for the free market analysis, loss of gas and time, and free knowledge provided by the "HOPE" of getting a listing)
Why is a REALTOR posting on a blog or forum?
If they need help or assistance, why not ask their manager or another broker within the same Franchise.
The whole point is,,,,without real estate associations like realtor.com and aarsteam.com, you would all be making 1% or less commissions..
Guess what? because you currently dilute your own realtor association and value by sending business to the freebies of zillow and trulia, your fees ARE going to be 1%.
And the persons to thank for this????
U.
www.aarsteam.com
Submitted by Jason Graves on July 9, 2008 - 1:25pm.
I am an advocate in the Raleigh, NC market for a statewide MLS. If the Realtors control the information, then who better to provide it to the consumer? By becoming the number one resource for property sales and information in our market, we garner the most control. Why are we allowing Trulia and Zillow to do it for us? Or Realtor.com or Homes.com???
Houston (www.Har.com) has done it in their local market and their alexa.com ranking is 9,995! To put this in perspective, Realtor.com is 989. The top, local website in Raleigh is 148,160. Imagine the traffic we could generate for ourselves by a statewide MLS! We already have the information and DOJ keeps suing us to release it to OTHER agencies. That tells me we are doing it all wrong. Make it work for us!
I would pay more to my MLS to be allowed to showcase my listings, myself and my company to consumers and not just to other realtors. Instead, I'm having to pay Realtor.com and Homes.com to do this.
Jason B. Graves
www.RaleighRealEstateNews.com
www.JasonBGraves.com
Submitted by Katie Minkus on July 9, 2008 - 1:42pm.
Aloha. I completely disagree with Ralph that by posting my opinions and/or listings on "freebies" like zillow and trulia I'm diluting my Realtor Association and commission rates! I believe that is an outdated opinion. I sit as a Director on the Kona Board of Realtors Board of Directors and I can tell you that our association has NOTHING to do with the commission that I charge my clients for my services! In fact, to suggest that it does, or that by associating with a "free" website would dilute my commission skirts around the edges of anti-trust! Our local Realtor association is focused on the education of our members and monitoring ethics within the community - there is NEVER any discussion about or around commission rates as it is ILLEGAL to do so! And my understanding about NAR is that it's main purpose is a political organization lobbying for our rights and interst as an industry - not in protecting our commission rates!
I believe it's my job when I take a listing to get that property exposed to as many possible buyers as possible out in the marketplace. I live and work in Hawaii which means that well over 95% of our buyers live more than 3000 miles away from me. How do they find my listings? On the internet! It's my job to get as many of those possible buyers to see and contemplate buying my listing as possible, so I'll upload it anywhere and everywhere that someone might see it - including all the "freebies."
I've stated this opinion previously, but if you're hanging onto the idea that your value and your commission rates are set by CONTROLLING the information, you're in for a big surprise when you turn around and discover that the real estate industry has left you far behind. Your value as a Realtor is not just in being ethical and honest (and belonging to a REALTOR organization) - that's a no-brainer - it's in assisting clients in sorting through the mountains of information they're discovering on the internet and helping them make sense of it for their particular situation.
Blogs and social networking allow us as to touch those consumers directly and add VALUE to their property purchase or sale by making sense of information. They also allow us as professionals to network with others in diverse areas to allow for an interchange of ideas - it's the same reason we all go to trade shows, really! Living in Hawaii, I have limited access to "new ideas" with regard to my Real Estate business. Where do I get new ideas? By networking with other agents, going to tradeshows and blogging and social networking sites. If I simply asked my "manager" (I AM the manager) or someone else in my "franchise" (I own my own independent Brokerage, no franchise available) I'd be SOL with regard to new ideas and how to better serve my clients and then I my commission rate would be 0% because I would have no business!
Ralph, I suggest you look into the CRS series of educational courses, and specifically the one on technology to better understand how your opinion is likely to be hurting your sales. I've been posting my listings and opinions on blogs, social networking sites and zillow and trulia for YEARS now and I'm on my local Realtor BOD and not only do I see absolutely NO conflict between the two, but I've NEVER taken a 1% commission because I don't have to - my sellers understand that my posting their listings to the "freebie" sites is a benefit to them and they pay me well for doing my job.
Submitted by Allen Wright on July 9, 2008 - 1:56pm.
Jason,
You make an excellent point about HAR.com but missing the larger piece regarding Realtor.com etc. HAR.com is local and although enormous and very well advertised it is still local and not well know by those outside the Houston Metropolitan area.
Granted if you typed homes for sale in Houston in Google it appears on the first page, eighth place, but if you are not from the area it means nothing.
Realtor.com and Homes.com etc. attract the national audience and those that are relocating. I am a BIG fan of HAR and all that they do for agents and I hope other associations model themselves after the HAR business plan, but it does not mean that the national compilers do not have their place.
Personally, what frustrates me the most is agents that but little to no effort in describing their property on Realtor.com; one picture, little or no description, little information ... this screams cheap and lazy.
Submitted by Jason Anderson on July 9, 2008 - 2:01pm.
Buyers and sellers don't care in the least about your precious local associations. We want up-to-date access to listings and professional help <i>when we request it<i>.
This is the information age and holding onto your information will only bury you (and your buyers with you). I will find your information or I will find another home. Making your listings available in just a couple places online is slow sales suicide.
Just ask the record companies how well info-stinginess works in the internet era.
Lucky Rock Consulting
Bluetooth & Buzz Marketing
Bluetooth Advertising Blog
Submitted by Brad Hanks on July 9, 2008 - 2:03pm.
Kudos to both ActiveRain and RealTown for their milestone achievements. Both serve a valuable role in offering a voice to real estate professionals and both offer viable, thriving communities for collaboration and sharing. The real estate industry is catching on to how social networking is expanding business.
Social networking is here to stay, and I'm encouraging REALTORS to get on board now. And while ActiveRain and RealTown are great places to develop referral networks and share ideas, real estate professionals need to be incorporating a strategy utilizing Facebook, MySpace, LinkedIn and others if they're looking to expand their networks with consumers and businesses. With the number of people using social networks numbering in the hundreds of millions, being visible and contributing on these sites will reap rewards in the long term.
But social networks are only a starting point. True networking continues outside of the internet universe - social networking is simply the handshake that preceeds the conversation.
Submitted by Jason Graves on July 9, 2008 - 2:11pm.
Allen,
Thanks for the kudos! It's large topic and difficult to compress such a large idea into such a small space.
I am not against the national sites at all! I just don't understand why more MLS's don't go after a larger market share. In raleigh, you have to go to a local company website and utilize their IDX information to shop for a home OR you have to go to Realtor.com. If more associations had a www.HAR.com approach then we'd have more local control.
Now imagine if you had an entire state unified in one MLS site. NC is working on that now with Raleigh, Charlotte, Ashville, Greensboro and Wilmington. Read http://www.raleighrealestatenews.com/?p=331 my latest blog post and it links back to the story about the idea.
Jason B. Graves
Submitted by Allen Wright on July 9, 2008 - 2:31pm.
I would agree ... and have been supporting those platform ideas for years ... the hurdle is going to a single source is not only a political fight but a fight over loss of jobs and control that many small boards have other the market.
Submitted by Victor Lund on July 9, 2008 - 2:36pm.
For more information on the performance of HAR.com, please review our mls consumer facing website study. It can be downloaded for free at http://www.wavgroup.com/reports
HAR.com serves a vital role in the Houston area to both brokers and consumers. Brokers consider it among the chief benefits of MLS membership. Consumers love it because it offers the most accurate and timely data of any website without the sales pressure perceived from agent and broker sites.
Many consumers want to do their market homework before contacting an agent or broker.
From the position of logic, in brokers choose to send listings to Realtor.com, then they should be supportive of MLS public sites. In many ways brokers have more control over their MLS site than they do with Realtor.com.
Third Party websites(Yahoo, Trulia, Zillow, Cyberhomes) can also be a valuable tools for brokers. They strongly support the efforts of agents trying to win listing presentations by demonstrating the agent's online marketing focus - a key selection criteria in selecting an agent.
Victor Lund
Partner
WAV Group
http://waves.wavgroup.com
http://www.wavgroup.com
Submitted by Joe Cline on July 9, 2008 - 3:44pm.
Hey there all,
Jason, Why do you need a statewide or national MLS? No buyers I know come to me and say. "Hi Joe, I'd like to live in Texas. Let's get started." If I'm missing some aspect of what it would bring I'm open to discussion.
My take is that real estate is local excepting very few buyers who can afford to live anywhere. I can see some metroplexes in the northeast or other highly dense areas benefiting, but with the distance from Ausitn to Houston/Dallas being almost 200 miles, you're going to live and look in one or the other. That being the case, you are going to use an agent in Austin or an agent in Dallas. Just the way 99% of transactions are going to unfold.
Speaking of local and national companies...
I LOVE HAR. They rock. They really provide killer services for their agents and consumers.It's been a while since I looked, but how cool would it be to have 3 locations within your city? We only have one board location in Austin, but we're as big as Houston. Of course, tell that to the agents living in far south Austin who have to drive to far north Austin to get to the board.
Aside from that, and probably more to the point, the website provides tons of relevant information to everyone involved in the transaction. I use their school finder to look up data. Not that it's a huge deal since that info is published for everyone to see, but the fact that they invested in the tool is great for their agents and consumers.
Now looking at the national sites. I really really really don't like most of them. I think of them as useless real estate middlemen.
What do the national sites (realtor.com and homes.com) do for the agent or consumer? For the consumer they provide access to listings. Big whoop. What user can't type in real estate into google and find access to listings??? Hello? Is it 1998 or 2008?
Ok. So now they are what? Lead generators? So they take money from agents and sell them advertising or leads. AND best of all, they provide no value add to the consumer. Unless things have changed since I last looked at them a few years back they cause the cost of selling to be higher and don't do anything for the consumer or agent aside from hooking them up. Also, if anyone was ignorant enough to use Realtor.com as their primary search engine for properties in hot markets, they will be without a house for a LONG time. Why wait for feeds to get to R.com when I can get it at 2am from my local board before R.com even completes loading the feed?
Submitted by Joe Cline on July 9, 2008 - 3:44pm.
Hey there all,
Jason, Why do you need a statewide or national MLS? No buyers I know come to me and say. "Hi Joe, I'd like to live in Texas. Let's get started." If I'm missing some aspect of what it would bring I'm open to discussion.
My take is that real estate is local excepting very few buyers who can afford to live anywhere. I can see some metroplexes in the northeast or other highly dense areas benefiting, but with the distance from Ausitn to Houston/Dallas being almost 200 miles, you're going to live and look in one or the other. That being the case, you are going to use an agent in Austin or an agent in Dallas. Just the way 99% of transactions are going to unfold.
Speaking of local and national companies...
I LOVE HAR. They rock. They really provide killer services for their agents and consumers.It's been a while since I looked, but how cool would it be to have 3 locations within your city? We only have one board location in Austin, but we're as big as Houston. Of course, tell that to the agents living in far south Austin who have to drive to far north Austin to get to the board.
Aside from that, and probably more to the point, the website provides tons of relevant information to everyone involved in the transaction. I use their school finder to look up data. Not that it's a huge deal since that info is published for everyone to see, but the fact that they invested in the tool is great for their agents and consumers.
Now looking at the national sites. I really really really don't like most of them. I think of them as useless real estate middlemen.
What do the national sites (realtor.com and homes.com) do for the agent or consumer? For the consumer they provide access to listings. Big whoop. What user can't type in real estate into google and find access to listings??? Hello? Is it 1998 or 2008?
Ok. So now they are what? Lead generators? So they take money from agents and sell them advertising or leads. AND best of all, they provide no value add to the consumer. Unless things have changed since I last looked at them a few years back they cause the cost of selling to be higher and don't do anything for the consumer or agent aside from hooking them up. Also, if anyone was ignorant enough to use Realtor.com as their primary search engine for properties in hot markets, they will be without a house for a LONG time. Why wait for feeds to get to R.com when I can get it at 2am from my local board before R.com even completes loading the feed?
Joe Cline
Joe
Austin Realtor | Austin Real Estate | Austin Real Estate Blog
Submitted by Allen Wright on July 9, 2008 - 3:57pm.
Joe,
I started real estate in Denver, CO ... there are 6 different associations that make up the local MLS system. Each association must have their own office, officers, staff etc. Houston use to be this until one very smart person made the change to a single Association setup. There are satelite offices but most everything is done at the primary location. HAR emails and webinars everything it can so the only reason to go to the facility is for training or committee meetings.
I applaud Bob hale for running a very tight ship and implementing the use of economies of scale ... one main association with many more members can do a lot more for those members than several small and competing associations.
Although real estate is local I have a difficult time thinking that real estate from the north side of town is SOOOOO much different than from the south side od town that a seperate association is required.
When i run across multiple associations in one city I think "WASTE".
Submitted by Joe Cline on July 9, 2008 - 4:18pm.
Hey Allen,
Sorry. I was unclear. I meant that it would be nice if we had a satellite office down south so that if you needed to do something you didn't need to trek across town to do so. Would also be cool since smaller brokerages may not have offices all over like the larger folks. A satellite office would help in that case.
Definitely no two associations. That screams DOUBLE DUES! :)
Joe
Joe
Austin Realtor | Austin Real Estate | Austin Real Estate Blog
Submitted by Justin Britt on July 9, 2008 - 5:22pm.
So far, from what I've seen, The Inman News community is leaps and bounds ahead of Active Rain as far as usability goes. I can't wait to explore more : )
--
Justin Britt
Head-Web-Head
Hawaii Life Real Estate Services, LLC
Hawaii real estate search engine
Submitted by Ralph M on July 10, 2008 - 7:12am.
Katie,
Does your 2008 "Code Of Ethics" state you are to promote an outside organization other than your association REALTOR.COM?
Why do you feel you can pick and chose to utilize your "Code Of Ethics".... When you feel it is at your conveinance?
"I'm on my local Realtor BOD and not only do I see absolutely NO conflict between the two"
Take the blinders off.
As it is members like yourself, that are assisting in killing your own organization that got you to the level where you are.
Please advise then why, you are a REALTOR?
Not for the search engine....
Not for the "Creed of Ethics"...
For the logo?
For the Contracts?
To promote Realtor or the FREEBIE sites?
Submitted by Rudy Bachraty on July 10, 2008 - 11:38am.
Hi Stefan!
This is a fantastic conversation. Congrats to AR and RT for their achievements.
In my opinion, online real estate communities and social networks are here to stay. The types of conversations and connections that are made here are truly priceless. In my role at Trulia, one of the things I do on a daily basis is participate in numerous online communities and use a multitude of social networking tools. The results have been amazing.
Trulia Voices, our real estate Q&A community, has some great conversations going on. Home buyers, home sellers and real estate agents are really connecting here. If you haven't checked it out yet, please do.
These communities and tools provide us with an opportunity to make a connection. It's what you do with those connections that sets you apart in an ever growing crowd.
Here are some Trulia video testimonials:
http://www.truliablog.com/2008/04/04/trulia-voices-is/
http://www.truliablog.com/2008/04/11/san-francisco-style-trulia-voices-i...
Rudy
Social Media Guru at Trulia
http://www.truliablog.com
Submitted by Katie Minkus on July 10, 2008 - 1:24pm.
Aloha, Ralph. Not to get into a "pissing contest" here, but have you READ the NAR Realtor Code of Ethics? I have a copy in .pdf format on my computer I'm more than happy to email to you if you don't have one. Wish I could post it here for everyone to download.
In any event, I just reread the entire Realtor Code of Ethics and nowhere in there does it say ANYTHING about promoting or not promoting any outside organizations! The Code of Ethics is written to guide us as professionals in dealing with our CLIENTS, not our marketing and advertising!
I'm guessing that you are NOT a Realtor. Please stop posting untrue and negative remarks on this site. The rest of us are here to share ideas and learn from each other, not to "defend" ourselves against untrue remarks.
Katie.
Submitted by Stefan Swanepoel on July 10, 2008 - 1:44pm.
OK, so back to Online Communities.
It’s clear that online communities, discussion groups and blogs have changed the way and who can say what and when. The Web as a whole is no longer about idly surfing and passively reading or watching. It is now a dynamic form of creative expression.
But what are the benefits the real estate industry can drive from it?
Is it the socializing and the sharing...or is it more?
How can we as an industry use online communities to collaborate and create a better industry, better real estate professionals, better associations….etc, etc.
And above all how can we truly provide the consumer a better real estate service through, with or because of an online community. If so, what is the real potential of an online community?
Submitted by Damien Hall on July 10, 2008 - 2:15pm.
"My vision of a community is a place where buyers and sellers gather to discuss properties and agents. Where a client who has seen a property or worked with an agent could comment on that property or agent. This would be helpful for other clients when searching for homes or deciding which agent they will work with through the real estate transaction." Justin Britt
You can't really sum up how the web is changing the industry in just a few lines. Because there are so many facets, it would take a dissertation. But I think Justin's comment does a good job from a consumer's point of view. These social sites are a marketplace where people can go to discuss various topics. Consumers can get information. Service providers can give information. People learn. People teach. There is so much that is happening! And I think it will continue to change the real estate transaction and everything that goes into it.
Take the MLS for example. Because of these trends, I do believe that these MLSs should be more consumer friendly. They should figure a way to serve the consumer as well as the agent. Like I said earlier, information itself should be free. However service is not free. It wouldn't hurt agents if the average consumer had access to more of the data in an MLS. Where the agent makes his money and shows his worth, is in the service he provides by helping the consumer apply the data.
With the recent NAR DOJ settlement, I think these MLSs will move in this direction.
www.TheDCInvestor.blogspot.com
Submitted by Jan E Callne on July 10, 2008 - 4:05pm.
I think the real estate industry and consumers can benefit from online communities. After all, the Internet exists to improve communication. Communities can grow anywhere communication occurs. However, the online community needs to have a focus. The best communities for real estate professionals are communities where consumers get involved and open communication occurs. I think that online communities should be about where you live and work because when you look at the big picture it is all about lifestyle. If you are buying you are concerned with finding a home in a community that suites your lifestyle or can improve your lifestyle. If you are selling a home it is the same thing, you want buyers to be informed about the lifestyle and community where your home is for sale. Communities are not about real estate agents and brokers, it is about opening conversations and a new way to get leads. The conversation should be about community information, local market, schools, lifestyle and other aspects about a community. Communities are about being part of the community and doing your part to make it a better place for everyone involved.
Submitted by Kevin Tomlinson on July 10, 2008 - 4:36pm.
i agree with David. Info is free. David, the hard sell is dead everywhere!
Submitted by Allen Wright on July 10, 2008 - 4:40pm.
David,
I think we are discussing two seperate items: Communities for Real Estate Agents and Associated Affiliates and "Neighborhoods"more affilitated with consumers.
As communities evolve you will find more CONSUMERS finding online neighborhoods specific to their geographic area which include agents and other vendors that service that area; this is seperate from agents and real estate professionals involved in communities that support themselves.
I agree that agents should posture themselves differently when addressing consumer oriented sites, and yes the hard sell must go away, but these are distinct communities.
I always try and remind myself that the vast majority of agents are a third as tech savy as the average consumer that blogs and belongs to communities and other social networking sites.
Submitted by Jon Strum on July 10, 2008 - 8:17pm.
How can we as an industry use online communities to collaborate and create a better industry, better real estate professionals, better associations….etc, etc.
Participants can leverage the benefits of an online community by taking advantage of its collective intelligence. So the opportunity for our industry to use online communities to better itself is dependent upon attracting meaningful numbers of community participants who "get it". Then, their daily activities within that community -- blogging, commenting, etc. will offer up the ideas that become pilot projects and grow from there.
And above all how can we truly provide the consumer a better real estate service through, with or because of an online community. If so, what is the real potential of an online community?
We can't really do this on a wide scale as long as less than 10% of all agents (according to NAR) are blogging. For goodness sake, there are still about 1/3 of all agents who haven't decided that having a web presence is necessary to their business! The key to online communitiies being able to achieve their potential in our industry lies in creating critical mass among participants. That doesn't necessarily mean a majority, but we need more than what statistically amounts to a few brave souls.
The sad irony of Web 2.0 initiatives within our industry is that at this point in time, it's largely the same group of people talking to (or about) each other.
There needs to be a fundamental shift in thinking about social media among brokers and managers coupled with an influx of younger agents who no longer separate "tech" from the way they live the rest of their lives.
Until then, it would be difficult if not impossible to provide a "better real estate service" on any broad level.
Submitted by Jay Thompson on July 10, 2008 - 9:46pm.
"We can't really do this on a wide scale as long as less than 10% of all agents (according to NAR) are blogging."
I've heard that number from the NAR too. And I don't buy it for a second. 10% of 1.3M members means 130,000 real estate blogs? I think the number of agents actively blogging is FAR less than that.
"There needs to be a fundamental shift in thinking about social media among brokers and managers coupled with an influx of younger agents who no longer separate "tech" from the way they live the rest of their lives."
Well said, and spot on.
Jay Thompson
Broker / Owner
Thompson's Realty
Blog: www.PhoenixRealEstateGuy.com
.
Submitted by Derek Overbey on July 10, 2008 - 9:50pm.
Jon,
I could not agree with you more. Having just made the jump from the brokerage world to an Internet start up, I can tell you first hand that agents are still having difficulty embracing web-based marketing, tools and communities.
Even being located in the heart of Silicon Valley, like my former company Intero was, didn't make as big of an impact as I thought it would on the agent's understanding and use of technology. They have to understand that technology does not mean a cell phone and email. It is so much deeper than that.
What I feel is happening now is that the consumer is far outpacing the agents in the use of real estate related tools and services and are expecting those to be brought to the table at a listing presentation.
For those agents and brokerages that take the time to understand and embrace all these incredible Web 2.0 gems that are happening in our industry, I feel there will be a huge windfall of business coming your way for many years to come.
Derek Overbey
Senior Director of Partnership Strategy – Roost.com
Web - http://roost.com
Blog - http://blog.roost.com
Submitted by Katie Minkus on July 10, 2008 - 9:55pm.
Aloha,
"There needs to be a fundamental shift in thinking about social media
among brokers and managers coupled with an influx of younger agents who
no longer separate "tech" from the way they live the rest of their
lives."
How to best communicate the shift and encourage them to do so?
katie minkus
broker-in-charge/owner
lava rock realty
www.lavarockrealty.com
Submitted by Bill Lublin on July 11, 2008 - 2:05am.
Bill Lublin CRB,CRS,GRI
CEO CENTURY 21 Advantage Gold
Visit me at MovePhilly and REreflections Or Click Here to
Find Homes in PA & NJ
Boy spend a couple of days working IRL and a conversation grows and wanders all over the place. Almost feels like the conversation after a holiday dinner.
Stefan; Great post about the growth of an interesting phoenomenon, but I'm not sure the number of members is an accurate idicator of the actual presence of the industry. THe fact you point out however - that the industry is moving (howver slowly or quickly) to larger online discussions and communities is certainly made by the responses to your post.
I am amazed at the amount of misinfomation that floats around these discusscussions however, and this discussion is not different. If I make make a couple of statements that I believe to be factual:
An MLS is a business to business platform by its very definition.
The MLS is not a public utility.
An MLS may have a public facing web site, but that is an advertising function for its members, not an inherent part of its basic reason for existence
The Real Estate Industry is a business. That business is not the dissemination of information.
We disseminate product information for business purposes (marketing and advertising) and not as a public service.
Social Media can serve a purpose in our business as a networking tool, but the educational quality of that Media is determined by the quality of the material provided. Since there is NO control over that quality, great care should be taken in determining what information should be relied upon or used.
Social Media also serves a purpose in allowing individuals who wish to remain anonymous during the research phase of their real estate purchase to learn about real estate companies and professionals through their on-line presence, before deciding who they will contact.
Less important then the number of people blogging is the number of people reading Blogs. According to Businessweek,quoting a study done by Forrester research, only 1/4 of the adult on-line community reads even one blog per month.
Its way too easy to make sweeping statements and engage in hyperbole when you type.
Submitted by Jay Thompson on July 11, 2008 - 6:33am.
Bill
As usual, you provide thoughtful insight and analysis.
When you say,"The Real Estate Industry is a business. That business is not the dissemination of information." I have to partly disagree. I think a significant portion of our job *is* the dissemination of information. Or more accurately, the education of our clients (which involves dropping a great deal of information, and the interpretation of that information, into our clients laps.
"According to Businessweek, quoting a study done by Forrester research, only 1/4 of the adult on-line community reads even one blog per month."
I see this number referenced often. Personally, I believe that number is low. Just yesterday, I had three prospects mention "my website". Digging into it further, all three has actually found my blog, not my traditional website. It's my experience that many of my clients that come through the blog don't even realize it's a blog. Other bloggers (inside and outside of real estate) have seen the same thing. So many people see a blog as a website (which of course it is) and likely have no idea how to answer a question like, "how often do you read a blog?" The NAR reports what, 80% of people begin a home search on line? They can easily begin that search on a blog. Preferably mine. ;)
PS: if you put a "" after the "Find Homes in PA & NJ" in your signature, then your entire post won't look like a link.
Jay Thompson
Broker / Owner
Thompson's Realty
Blog: www.PhoenixRealEstateGuy.com
.
Submitted by Jay Thompson on July 11, 2008 - 6:37am.
Argh. You can't put HTML in a comment... you need to put (without any spaces) " < / a > " at the end of your signature.
Jay Thompson
Broker / Owner
Thompson's Realty
Blog: www.PhoenixRealEstateGuy.com
.
Submitted by Ralph M on July 11, 2008 - 6:53am.
Katie,
You seem to have this talent of spinning things.
1- No where did I say you can not, but there is no where where it says you can.
2- No where did I state, you are to be in "colusion" concerning commission fees
Start taking responsibility as a realtor and other members who live by the association and actully have "Pride" in it".
Once again, your own association is losing attention, members, and importance due to its members like you who promote whatever someone wants to hear, instead of actually having ethics like your suppose to.
Pissing contest,,,,No. Its the truth!
Submitted by Daniel Rothamel, Inman Community Manager on July 11, 2008 - 7:35am.
Ralph,
I don't think that calling out someone's ethics is really the way to encourage an open dialogue.
But to your point-- how does promoting the homes of one's clients to the widest possible audience in any way, shape, or form display a lack of pride in one's REALTOR association? My association has nothing to do with the promotion of my clients' listings, or even interests, for that matter. I don't understand your position as to how the two are related.
I also don't really understand your assertion that associations are, "losing attention, members, and importance due to its members like you who promote whatever someone wants to hear. . ."
What do you mean by this? What is, "whatever someone wants to hear," exactly?
I have seen you, in past comments, promote the use of REALTOR.com. That site is a vendor like any other. While it uses the REALTOR brand, and has a very extensive agreement with NAR, it is run by a private company, and bilks agents out of more money than any listing vendor on the planet. It, in fact, is absolutely no different than Trulia or Zillow, except for the fact that it is less consumer friendly, and costs agents a lot more.
http://www.RealEstateZebra.com
Submitted by Bill Lublin on July 11, 2008 - 7:40am.
Bill Lublin CRB,CRS,GRI
CEO CENTURY 21 Advantage Gold
Visit me at MovePhilly and REreflections Or Click Here to
Find Homes in PA & NJ
Jay Thanks for the tip on the HTML - I am such a rookie ;-)
And you sir, are the man when it comes to meaningful and thoughtful discussion -
I didn't mean that we shouldn;t provide information, merely that providing information is not our business. In other words it is a strategy rather then a purpose or motivation. To me, when someone pays you for the content of your site, you are in the business of providing information. (And I know by that definition even modern newspapers are not in that business, they are in the advertising business but that's another conversation)
I do agree with you that our business probably can attract a larger share of attention to its blogs, because we are publishing information attractive to our target audiences (like pieces of bread to attract deer) so that consumers will come closer and not be scared.
Submitted by Kaye Thomas on July 11, 2008 - 9:20am.
I agree with Jay.. I don't think the numbers on "active" blogs is anywhere near 10% but I do think more people are reading those blogs that are "active" then people realize.
An "active blog" is one where the agent posts new information at least 2-3 times a week. Consumers are hungry for this information. They can find listing information everywhere; what they want is to know what is happening beyond the raw numbers. This is the type of information a good blog can provide.
People walk in my open houses and treat me almost like a celebrity. They are not only regular readers but believe I am one of the most knowledgeable agents in town. When I go on a listing appointment people feel as if they know me. The same is true when buyers contact me.. I am already a trusted resource.
The cat is out of the bag as far as listing information goes and it's not going back in. Agents need to realize that consumers want information that goes beyond what is on the listing. This is where a good agent has the advantage over the guys around the water cooler.
Internet communities are a great place to learn about blogging as well as what is happening in the outside world. Want to know what information consumers are looking for.. just read the questions they ask on Trulia and Zillow or the comments they make on blogs. While many consumer blogs are nothing more then rants against agents and prayers about buying a home, many of these sites tell you a great deal about how the consumer views most agents. Reading them will give you a great deal of insight about ways to address consumer concerns.
The internet is here.. the best thing you can do for your business is to learn how to take advantage of the opportunities it offers.
Submitted by Bill Lublin on July 11, 2008 - 10:25am.
Bill Lublin CRB,CRS,GRI
CEO CENTURY 21 Advantage Gold
Visit me at MovePhilly and REreflections Or Click Here to
Find Homes in PA & NJ
David:
Thanks for your comment. I do think you missed my point.
You said,"It's none of my business to tell you your business but it's certainly your business to provide information / expertise. "
I disagree only in part, my business is helping people to buy, sell and lease real property, to which end I do provide expertise and information. It is not my business to provide information and expertise to the public in general. I will however provide information and demonstrate expertise to the general public so that they may feel comfortable in doing business with me. I hope you see the difference there.
I think the conflict in our comments relates to the purpose of providing information. I am not against providing information as a marketing or advertising strategy. In fact, in the electronic world, it is a good business strategy to follow. However I am clear that I am not in the business of disseminating information, nor is that the business of real estate.
In fact you later say "These bloggers actually reduce their marketing costs by being able to stop selling and just focus on doing their job and talking about it." In that sentence you make the same point I did. They are providing information for marketing purposes, therefore they are not in the business of disseminating information. I would disagree that they have stopped selling but that may be because I don't view that as an approbriative word.
You even reinforce my point when you say "Honestly, I don't see how old-school sales tactics and can compete with these folks long term. And that's why this strategy may not be optional. " This is a strategy - a tactic- not the core business of the writer.
But as I said earlier, I'm not saying that providing information is a bad thing, its just not the business of the real estate industry.
Submitted by Debbie Ferrari on July 11, 2008 - 11:07am.
Everyone:
To me it is just wonderful that through this Inman vehicle--a form of social as well as business networking, as is obvious by the range of comments here--ideas can be proffered, examined, turned inside out, polished, critiqued again, RE-faceted and reformulated to the benefit of everyone involved.
This sort of networking amply demonstrates how passionate Realtors are about their work vis a vis their relationships to their clients.
All these discussions just represent the participants' concern about doing a better job for their clients.
For maximum productivity, these discussions should not be about trying to convince someone else that "MY WAY is better."
This is because, for some Realtors, option A will work best; for others Option B. Blogger or non-blogger. It doesn't really matter just so long as the REALTOR is focused on doing one thing well...serving the client with the most complete MLS and other information in the best possible way that it can be done BY THAT REALTOR.
Debbie Ferrari, "The Internet Broker"
****For South Orange County, CA****
Search the Local MLS Right from My Giant Web Site at:
http://www.debbieferrari.com
E-mail: Debbie@DebbieFerrari.com
CALL ME TOLL FREE: 888-547-2942
Reach Me All Day Long---